Lynxmotion Tech Support

But what your saying is that with the Mini Atom Bot Board and SSC-32 you can replace the MR C-3024 board on the RoboNova? Maybe I can live without catch and play. Who knows. I guess first thing I need to do is get a RoboNova and see how its like with the MR C-3024 and how well sensors work with it. If I dislike it then I will keep looking for a different controller that works for me better.

As said in the second post

the MR C-3024 can use C or Java instead of RoboBasic. How would this be done?

Hey,

Sorry for the double post. The Mini Atom Bot Board can control upto 20 servos as it says on the website (http://www.lynxmotion.com/Product.aspx? ... egoryID=66) Why is a servo controller such as the SSC-32 needed?

Also, does it matter which programming chip thing the Mini Atom Bot Board uses?
BASIC Atom 24M (BA-01)
BASIC Atom 28M
BASIC Atom Pro 24M (BAP-01)
BASIC Atom Pro 28M
BASIC Stamp 2 (BS2-01)
BASIC Stamp 2-E (BS2E-01)
or does it not even need one?

Oh also, can someone answer the questions in my previous post?

Double Thanks,
robodude666

The answer used to be that the Atom would be tied up with servo movement and not be able to do much other processing (sensors, etc.).
Soon, though, that won't be the case for the Atom.

However, there still stands two perfectly good reasons to use the SSC-32.
(1) Easy.
The SSC-32 is able to do group moves.
It can have 32 servos start and stop at the same time, even if they have to move vastly different distances.
Such things are done onboard, with no need for the user to worry about it.
Because of that serial interface, servo movement becomes "set it and forget it".

(2) Only uses one microcontroller pin.
Would you really want 18+ of your free I/O pins used to control servos?


"programming chip thing" = microcontroller
Well, it does matter, but it can indeed work with all of those listed.
Which you chose would be based upon that micro's specifications and online support.
The Atom seems to be the most popular on these forums.

The Stamps also have a big following because of their company's user-friendliness.


It needs one.
I've got an empty one sitting on the counter, next to me.
I haven't been watching it too closely, but I don't remember it doing backflips or making odd noises without a micro plugged in.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above person does not claim to have knowledge pertaining to the following subject: anything. Thus, said person may not be held liable for any mishaps/explosions that his advice incurs.

Right right, silly of me asking if it needs a "programming chip thing" I sort of figured it was a microcontroller but i wasnt too sure since it didnt come sold with it.

I guess I will go with the BASIC Atom Pro 28 since its "pro" and costs same as the non-pro. Get more for same price

About the servo controller. Can the mini atom bot board and ssc-32 "talk" to each other? (I am guessing they can, but just asking incase.) For example. All the servos are connected to the ssc-32 and you have an lcd, 3x ir sensors, accelerometer connected to the mini atom bot board. can you have in the program for the sensors to cause the servos to move. And also, you would only need to load the program onto the mini atom bot board? not the ssc-32?

Would the RoboNova's 6 Volt / 1000 mAh NiMH battery be enough to power both of these bad boys + 16 servos and sensors/stuff said about (lcd, 3x ir, accelerometer) or would 2x 6 Volt / 1000 mAh NiMH batteries be enough? Think the 7.2 one talked about on the site is a bit big to fit into the robonova...

EDIT:

My guess is no. The SSC-32 can use 6v but thats for "microservos" and normal servos is 7.2v and as for the mini atom bot board.. it too needs 7.2v to run.

The 12 Servo Hexapod (Autonomous) in the Mini Atom Bot Board manual (closes bot they had there to what i want to do) uses a 9v for logic and 7.2v for servo power. That is a lot of weight. The robonova battery is about 4oz while the 7.2v battery is either 5oz or 11oz (depending on the mAh)... Wait a second. is the 9v it uses for logic like a normal 9v battery?

Okeydokes, here goes...
::dives in::


Yep, you'd hook one of the general-purpose I/O pins to the SSC-32's RX (recieve) pin.
Then, in your program, you'd use a function like "SEROUT" (sorry, I'm not sure if the Atom Pro calls it "SEROUT") on that pin to send the instruction characters to the SSC-32.



You can't have the sensors directly move the servos unless the sensors output the desired PWM (which they most-definitely won't).
However, as you said, you can have the micro read the sensors and then send a change in servo positions to the SSC-32.


With the exception of updating the SSC-32's firmware (no programming knowledge required), you'll only program your microcontroller.
It's best to think of the SSC-32 as yet another passive component in your robot.
Like a sensor, it'll sit there and do nothing until your microcontroller/PC acts upon it.


This is where my knowledge deserts me.
I haven't used an LCD, an IR sensor, or an accelerometer (yet).
I have heard that both the LCD and the IR sensor are pretty power hungry, if you have them on full-time.
However, you can minimize this with the IR sensor by turning it on briefly every so often to check the distances.
Power issues are the first problem that most new roboteers deal with.
Without enough mAh, the servos won't be able to draw the current they need to keep the bot moving.
If I were you, I'd try to use the pack you've got, but minimize the sensors that you use.
If you do indeed chose to go with the whole shebang, I'd definitely go with a higher mAh battery, or put a couple of them in parallel.


Well... methinks you're getting a bit confused.

On both boards, there's a regulated logic portion and an unregulated "drive" portion.
On both boards, the onboard 5V regulator is of the low dropout variety.
What does that mean?
Well, it means that it can supply a steady 5V when it is given 6V or more.
I'd draw the line at 9V, though, since the regulator must burn the excess volts as heat.
I'd suggest using a seperate 9V battery for each of your electronic boards.

The "drive" section of both boards (which directly power the servos, in your case) can be any voltage that your servos can handle.
Your 6V 1000mAh battery will do nicely there.


You're falling into the trouble that all bipeds eventually get into.
There's just not enough room/weight capacity onboard to do all the fun stuff we want with it.
You'll find that's even moreso the case with relatively inexpensive/lighter biped kits.
Bipeds like the KHR-1 and the Nova work well only because they're light.
Their servos are relatively weak, but that doesn't matter because they are small.

I've built/rebuilt three different Lynxmotion bipeds, now.
Each time, I used 5645 servos, which are about twice as powerful as the Nova's.
Because of that, I haven't yet had to work around the constraints of a smaller biped.
So, I'm not the best guy to ask about ergonomic conservation of weight.
Hopefully, someone with said experience can chime in, here.


Indeed.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above person does not claim to have knowledge pertaining to the following subject: anything. Thus, said person may not be held liable for any mishaps/explosions that his advice incurs.

Well well well. What have I learned? For one, if you ask a lot of questions expect to get a really long reply Thanks for not killing me yet (once I actually get my robonova and mini atom bot board there will be more fun questions to answer Now for my reply!

Yea, after I posted my post before I went and looked at a few manuals and such. Turns out page 13 of the SSC-32 manual has examples!


I really love this! And I think this is how I will do it myself. Have the SSC-32 connected to a pin on the mini atom bot board and in my bot board code have a sub function thingy called "send data" for example which will serout the new servo positions. in my main code, i will have a variable for each servo and just change the servo's value when i want it to move. then just sub send_data in, get the ssc-32 to move the servos and on we go with our lives!

One thing I don't exactly get is the order of the things in the []. For example:
"#0P",DEC rax,
is the first one the pin's id name on the SSC-32? and i am guessing the second is the value for that servo and its saying that this is a dec number and not binary or whatnot.


Power! Right... "new roboteers deal with" Hey Hey Hey! You calling me a newbie? I only recently given thought to power issues. I know that without enough power the IR and lcd wont work well at all. IR will give back really wrong sensor readings and that the servos wont have enough power to turn which may damage them (i am only guessing. having a 1 or 2lb robot pushing down on your little gears while not having enough power to turn your gear must suck ).
Power options. Lynxmotion sells a few different batts.
7.2 Volt Ni-MH 1600mAh Battery Pack (5.7oz)
6.0 Volt Ni-MH 1600mAh Battery Pack (4.9oz)
7.2 Volt Ni-MH 2800mAh Battery Pack (11.3oz)
6.0 Volt Ni-MH 2800mAh Battery Pack (9.34oz)
And the 6 Volt / 1000 mAh NiMH battery which comes with the robonova. (not sure the oz. my guess is like 4oz?)

11.3oz for 7.2v and 2800mAh my god! That is like .6lbs of weight! I think that the 7.2v 1600mAh battery pack should be good enough, right? It may be like an extra 1-1.7oz heavier than the robonova's stock battery and also finding a place for it may be a problem since it seems very um long and big.. Think it may fit into the area where the battery currently is? I think that it should be a good area if its deep enough to fit the battery pack. When looking at photos of people build it, I didn't notice that area being used up for anything. Just empty space up there.



I guess it is worth a try with the stock battery from the robonova. And,


You thinks correct

"Wait a second. is the 9v it uses for logic like a normal 9v battery?"
"Indeed"
I am good

If the mini atom bot board and ssc-32 can fit onto the back of the RoboNova AND it can run with a 9v and the normal 6v 1000mah.. Do you think that it wont all be too heavy for the robonova? The mini atom bot board is like .2" smaller in one of the dems but with the ssc-32 right under it, the board becomes like an inch or so higher which may cause the robo to be a bit more unbalanced? Though I think making the servos at the hips or somewhere turn the body a bit more toward the grown might help it. So you may need to rewrite all of the code for it At least you got it running on a cool board

Thanks a lot mate. I added you to AIM a few days ago and I haven't seen you on yet. I added like 3 different alarms so I wouldn't miss you But none of them rang yet!

I will buy a robonova sometime within the next few weeks. I am still only 3/4ths there and I am thinking of selling my $450 PMP (mp4) player to raise up the other $250 I need + money for the mini atom bot board and all those cool sensors

I will poke around some more manuals and do more reading Is there any books or any sort of reading you suggest for me to look at with more info about all this lovely stuff?

Well, I've been having trouble trying to strangle you through this phone line.
For some reason, my hands won't fit.

Don't worry, just look at how many posts I've got.
<----
I'd say about 85% of those are questions.



Sweet.
This one's easy to answer.
What you're looking at is a muddled version of what the SSC-32 wants to "see" when you "talk" to it.
Here's an example...
If I want to send servo #0 to the exact center and servo #16 all the way to one side, this is what I'd send to the SSC-32, if I were going to be all direct about it:

You don't actually need those spaces in between.
"#0" corresponds to the servo pin labeled "0" on the SSC-32.
"P" is what you put before the position value to indicate it as such.
"<cr>" is a fancy way of showing a carriage return.
The carriage return tells the program that's going to send the data to actually send the data.
See the SSC-32 manual for more examples as well as other commands.


Energizer just came out with an AA-sized 2800mAh NiMH cell.
I've been using 6 of them (7.2V 2800mAh total) in battery carriers on my biped.
They're probably close to the 7.2V 1600mAh pack's weight.


For most of what you said you're doing, yes, it should do.
Check with someone, though.
I'm not sure if those servos will be OK with 7.2V.


Well, I'm not sure if it'll fit.
The difference between the 6V and 7.2V is just one extra AA battery.
Hey,Nova people!
Yea, over here!
::waves::
Someone to grab an extra AA battery and try to jam it in there.
Does it fit?



Sounds like my head.


The stock battery will be fine until you start tacking on too many sensors.


You can probably get away without the 9V.
You can power the logic portions off of the servo's batteries.
The only reason not to go that route is in case your servos overdraw the battery.
If that happens, the electronics will not get enough current and they'll reset.
No biggie, but your biped will probably fall on it's face.
9V's are the way to go when you're newbie, since they minimize the chance for odd failures.


C'mon, now, that's just silly.
Even if that was .2" of lead (Pb), d'you think that'd really tip the biped one way or another?



I haven't tripped your alarms because I'm very sneaky.
Actually, I'm on AOL (which is my ISP) for about 3 hours (at least) every day.
We're probably just getting time-zoned.


Yea...
My "toys" went out to the local flee market quite a while ago.
I'm out of stuff to sell.
I sort of need my shoes, after all.
And, I've already sold off my grandmother and my soul on ebay...


Yep.
Mini ABB manual.
SSC-32 manual.
Definitely the Robonova manuals, especially familiarizing yourself with the Nova's BASIC language.
And, don't forget... forums!
I'd suggest reading old posts from the Nova sections at lynxmotion and robosavvy.

Go ahead...
Bring on the questions...
I can take 'em!

_________________
Disclaimer: The above person does not claim to have knowledge pertaining to the following subject: anything. Thus, said person may not be held liable for any mishaps/explosions that his advice incurs.

That was also a mighty fast and long reply. Not much for me to say since everything was answered.


Oh yea? Look at mine. I'd say about 100% of those are asking questions

I read the mini atom bot board, robonova, robobasic (reason for using a different micropros. was to get away from robobasic.. dont like it much. im a c++ type of guy, im a sucker for { } lol) manual several times. closest I can get to a robonova And by several times... I mean like 10 or so times each. And that includes like all 100+ pages or so. depending on the manual. mini abb is rather small i think. not much in it same as ssc-32. robonova and robobasic are pretty long. the basic atom pro manual is like 168 pages. worst manual i ever read in my life too. think their "newer" one with examples is a bit better though.



AOL sucks... don't be cheap and get verizon or ool. its more costy but at least you can watch videos at normal speeds and dont have a shitty isp Oh, and I live in New York. Your in NJ as I understand. Didn't know there was a timezone difference
Is the AIM in your profile correct? Because seriously... My computer is on the whole day and has been for the past week. And it has never seen you on... It says that you have not been online ever. (I use trilly and it has a little thing that says last time user has been seen.)

Oh, I lied. I do have more questions The stuff talked about in the programming section of the SSC-32 manual is basically this stuff?
#0 P1500 #16 P750 <cr>
the SSC-32 uses those funky commands to know what servos to move .etc? I thought that was the cmd line based programming... Like if you have it connected to a terminal and you just want to test it and stuff. I didn't think it was actually using it. I guess I will have to look at more examples and stuff.

Lets see. I need like $900 for a robonova (found a sweet deal . no paypal though gunna have to bug my mom for her credit card later haha) and I will need $115 for mini atom bot board. also like 15$ for a battery (just in case) and like 40$ for cables and other general hardware. Oh, and like another 40$ or so to buy new tools and stuff. Saw a nice tool set at my local store.... Thats a total of $1110 and lets say $100-$200 for shipping (YES! It must be OVERNIGHT!! I won't be able to sleep for a freakin' week if it isnt! But all good, my mom normally covers shipping and I just add it for the difference of overnight and normal. normally $30 I add in. Sucks my birthdat is far away ) I have um $734.. Just $376 away. Sweet. Sorry about that last paragraph... I was ranting to myself. If you or anyone want to help the "Help robodude666 get a robonova fund." Feel free to pm me for my paypal At times I wish I had a cheaper hobby/obsession.

[edit]
I am guessing that any "programming chip thing" that starts with BASIC will be programmed in a form of basic? And if I want to use C/C++ I would need something like OOPIC-C? Does the mini atom bot board function better with a basic atom "programming chip thing" ? Or is that just writen on the website to sell more basic atoms? lol

_________________
What do you mean "NO SPOON!"????

Pretty much.
The SSC-32 wants to see everything but the actual characters "<", "c", "r", and ">" (put them together and you get "<cr>").
The "<cr> is just the LynxTerm's way of interpretting a carriage return.
It's shown this way because a carriage return is pretty much the equivalent of pressing the :ENTER: key, which is difficult to visually show.
The way the carriage return is represented varies between compilers/micros/what have you.
In C, it's usually "/r".
I can't remember what it is in BASIC, but it's probably it's ASCII equivalent number (13, if memory serves).
Check the code examples and you'll find what I'm blathering about.

The Atom probably does work best with the Mini Atom Bot Board.

The original OOPIC is supposedly quite crappy.
However, there's a new one out that sounds quite a bit better that might (I haven't heard yay or nay, yet) work with the ABB.

If you like "C" and don't mind getting your hands a bit dirty, I'd recommend skipping the ABB and getting yourself a PIC, AVR, ARM, etc...
I'm working with my first PIC, right now.
I like it because there's a cheap programmer for it at Sparkfun that works with my USB->DB9 cable (a blessing in itself).
Plus, all the software that I need comes free.

The nice part is that you get to make your own board with only what you want/need on it.
You won't have to worry about mounting it on your project either, since the size/layout is entirely determined by you.
Also, after the initial expense of the programmer (60 bucks, in my case), everything else is as cheap as dirt.
My 40-pin high-end micro is only $7.50 a pop.
In fact, it's really easy to get free samples from them.
Compared to the expenses of many good BASIC micros, you end up saving $ quite fast.

The "bad" part is that you'll need to learn a bit about electronics, but that's fun.
You can check out my PIC Control Board thread in the projects section if you're interested in the nitty-gritty of that sort of thing.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above person does not claim to have knowledge pertaining to the following subject: anything. Thus, said person may not be held liable for any mishaps/explosions that his advice incurs.

Well, Robot Dude on the first page said that the OOPIC-R will never be able to control 16 servos. What makes the Basic Atom better for the Mini Atom Bot Board than the OOPIC-C? They both seem to have the same amount of memory. As I understand the OOPIC-C can be as easily plugged into the Mini Atom Bot Board. Would the OOPIC-C not be able to be used with te SSC-32?

And honestly, I don't really want to make my own board. I don't have a fancy college degree like some of you do. And I would rather just buy a premade board like the mini atom bot board. Later on when I actually know what I am doing and feel that the mini atom bot board or oopic-r/II or whatever board does not fit my needs I will make my own. But for now without a fancy college degree, I will stick to premade boards

And seriously dude! Do you EVER get on AIM?! I have you added on your "folder1987" account. Do you use it? Or is it dead and used to throw people off track? =/ Because that plan works...

Looked at your PIC topic. Started reading it. It is very long, and I got lost very fast.

_________________
What do you mean "NO SPOON!"????

I'm probably the worst person to answer this.
::help!::
Well, I suppose it's because the Atom's firmware/libraries/whatever has been rewritten to use a much smaller percentage of the micro.
You're getting confused between controlling directly and sending strings to the SSC-32.
Sending the instructions to the SSC-32 can be done by just about any microcontroller.
Directly controlling (i.e. plugging servo into the BotBoard and not the SSC-32) is only possible if the micro has the necessary hardware/software/firmware.
It's only possible in large numbers like... say... 16 if the micro is efficient at PWM generation.

In essence, definitely go with the SSC-32 if you get an OOPIC.
You should still probably go with an SSC-32 if you get an Atom.


Wait a sec...
So I'm supposed to have a fancy college degree?
Why didn't anyone tell me this?!?!

Seriously, though.
No college degree is necessary.
I've just finished my first year as a BIOLOGY (ewwww!) major.
Needless to say, I'm changing it to a more robotics-like field, soon.
I haven't taken a single electronics/programming course.
If want to do it, you'll stare at data sheets for hours, ask a whole lot of questions, and things will magically fall into place.
That said, slow is probably the way to go (premade was how my first two bots were).



Damn...
You got me.
It's all a conspiracy.

Actually... I'm not sure what's up.
I've definitely been on for 6 hours today.


Yea, me too!

_________________
Disclaimer: The above person does not claim to have knowledge pertaining to the following subject: anything. Thus, said person may not be held liable for any mishaps/explosions that his advice incurs.

Interesting... Any books on EE (electrical engineering) you would recommend? I would go to a fancy college that has EE but I won't get accepted to any

I think I may use the Basic Atom Pro in the end anyway because all the fun toys I want to get and use, only seem to work with basic... If I have extra money I will get both OOPIC-C and Basic Atom Pro and try em both out, but till then basic atom pro.

Seems my trilly has been acting stupid... It added you on as AIM but as some crazy mode where you were just on the list and wouldn't actually be active. I seem to have fixed it.

You don't have a fancy college degree yet? Hate bio, eh? My sister hated it a lot too lol.

Oh, and good bye eveyone. I will be going away for 9 days to Alaska. (mom forcing me to go =/) I am leaving tomorrow at 12PM EST and will be back sometime late on july 17th

Oh, and woohoo! I seem to have found a job that pays $1,000/m for programming and server work yay! I start on like 18th and should get my first paycheck july 28th or so. w00t!

_________________
What do you mean "NO SPOON!"????

Of all the books that I've read (and I've read only a handful of electronics books), I still haven't found "the one".
I've just finished struggling through a pretty boring Digital Electronics book that I definitely wouldn't recommend.

Hopefully, someone can chime in with some nice suggestions...
::AH-HEM::

I'd like to read them if there's any good ones out there.

Come to think of it... you can get a book called "What's A Microcontroller" at RadioShack that's quite good.
It's about 60-80 bucks, but you get a micro (BASIC STAMP, pretty crappy micro, but it's a learning tool, so what the hay...), a prototyping board, and a bunch of components with it.
I'm thinking that's probably the best way to get into electronics.
There's nothing like blinkin' your first LED to get you interested.

Don't feel like you'll be stuck using the STAMP if you get one to learn on.
The different BASIC micros (a.k.a. BASIC clones) are VERY similar in their compiler's languages.


Hehe... I'm going to be majoring in Computers and Electrical Engineering (once I finally get off my lazy bum and switch from Bio) for another year and a half at my local county college.
I'm doing it there to save money and to get good (easy) grades.
Then, I'll be transfering (::crosses fingers::) to MIT if they accept me.


What's a trilly?
O.o
o.O


Working on it.

By the time I start my first EE class (this fall), I'll have already built 3 bipeds, understand 3 programming languages pretty well, and learned a nice smattering of electronics knowledge by working with my first micro.
Since I'm hurredly finishing all my non-EE requirements this summer, things are lookin' real good from here.

_________________
Disclaimer: The above person does not claim to have knowledge pertaining to the following subject: anything. Thus, said person may not be held liable for any mishaps/explosions that his advice incurs.

Hey Robodude,

I just joined this forum, thought I may be able to help you with the question on good EE books...

Personally, I like "Electronic Principles" by Albert Paul Malvino. I have an old edition (from like 15 years ago) but it covers really basic electrical and electronics stuff (kirchoff's laws, diodes, transistors and op-amps). You can try some of the later editions of this book, but I personally like the old one.

Thanks,

I will look more into it later. Though it is a college text book I think and costs like $135 =/ Latest seems to be 6th edition.

_________________
What do you mean "NO SPOON!"????